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Are local storage options planned for Circle 2?

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15 comments

  • Logi_Aron

    Hi @Michael Vislocky?,

     

    Given the Circle is a cloud only system right now (additional processing and advanced analytics are performed there), what would your expectations for a local storage option be? When and how would you use it? How would you want to access the footage, sort through it?

     

    Best regards,

    Logi_Aron

    Head of Engineering, Logitech Circle

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  • Mike*V

    The Windows 10 application could capture and save the complete video streams for all cameras on the network to files using a standard video format with time stamps in the video. The application would allow you to specify the maximum disk space to allocate per camera. The oldest files saved at a predetermined interval (some number of hours?) would be deleted to make room for the newest files. Optional filtering or analytics similar to what you do for the cloud would be nice but not necessary, especially if it delayed development and availability.

     

    Since the current snippets don't capture everything, (and nothing when there is no Internet connection) it would be good to be able to see any of the video not currently captured in the cloud for any reason.

     

    If you captured videos from each camera to a standard video file format, there are quite a few applications available for viewing them. You could include a viewer with the application that would allow someone to aggregate the files for a camera and quickly scroll through the videos to look for something. But again, if all you did was save standard video files, that would be a good start.

     

    Local storage would also allow the addition of cameras that would not otherwise be practical to add to cloud storage because of limited Internet bandwidth.

     

    You must be aware of other systems in your market space that already do this.

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  • muellthos

    I'd also like to have the option to receive the stream locally and the notifcation about a motion event locally, without going first to a cloud service. Perhaps Logitech makes an API available for this?🙂

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  • Logi_Aron

    Local streaming and alerts are possible if you setup HomeKit on the camera.

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  • muellthos

    @Logi:Aron: Will this expanded to other home security hubs/frameworks e.g. Google Home? I do not own HomeKit and I will never buy one 😉.

    Why is this? Don't your app receive the stream direct from the camera which is in the same WLAN? Has it really to go to your Datacenter instead?

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  • Logi_Aron

    Neither Google nor Alexa officially support 'local' camera streaming in their protocols as they are built on cloud streaming with security models which don't allow that. Their encryption setup doesn't allow for direct access to the camera.

     

    HomeKit as a protocol was designed to only allow _local_ access and its security model is built that way.

     

    Our app currently gets the stream from the cloud in all cases, as we have no local interface on the camera. We designed it this way so there would be no limitations on the number of viewers you can have, or what type of interface / protocols they want to support. In addition, this means the camera is much more secure since there is no mechanism to exploit the camera from your LAN or other compromised local devices. HomeKit also has a either a single or double stream limitation depending on the setup.

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  • lz253

    Hi Aron, I'm also looking for a local storage solution. Did you mean that if I set up HomeKit, I will be able to get alerts remotely without uploading my footage? My main concern about any cloud solutions is that I don't want to upload my private footage to any 3rd party. I have a NAS at home for that.

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  • Logi_Aron

    In a HomeKit only setup, the camera never talks to the Logitech Circle servers except to check for firmware updates periodically. However, due to limitations on Apple's implementation, a HomeKit only setup doesn't support recordings, only motion notifications. So yes, you can receive notifications and watch the live view, but no recordings will be saved.

     

    All that being said, the Circle product and cloud are designed so that nobody except the account holder can access your footage. We implemented an encryption system that means no person, entity, 3rd party or Logitech employee can view the footage from our system. If a governmental entity subpoenaed your content, we can only deliver them encrypted footage. We have no mechanism without your account credentials to derive the encryption key used on that footage. Even if somebody stole your camera, they can't access your footage as the camera only has the encryption keys to transmit footage to our servers.

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  • lz253

    Got it. Thank you Aron!

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  • Sam7680

    @Aron Rosenberg? I really appreciate you stating this openly. It's not explicit in your support documentation and it's honestly converting me to a customer (just bought a circle 2). Many home camera vendors that are based in the cloud won't state they are encrypting at rest. I don't understand why this isn't more important to customers. If your cloud service suffers a breach, this is one of the best ways to mitigate the impact.

     

    I do have a question though. So, if the footage is encrypted at rest in the Circle cloud, how can analytic operations be performed on it?

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  • Logi_Aron
    Content isn't saved until after the CV analytics has been performed and thus the at rest encryption gets applied after analytics.
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  • Sam7680

    @Aron Rosenberg? Thank you!

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  • imagio

    Any updates on additional local access or storage options for Circle 2? Standard HTTPS or RTSP access?

     

    Edit: as for security, an https/rtsp stream with authentication and restricted to the local network only would surely be sufficient?

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  • Vladimír

    Hi Aron, I'm thinking about buying Circle 2, but I'm still hesitating because of security aspect.

     

    Are CV analytics done server side or directly on the camera?

    I'm asking as with server side implementation it means, that Logitech has full access to live stream and can anytime start recording it without encryption (for example when forced by government).

     

    How are recording decrypted when they are played? Is it completely client side process (javascript/client application) or keys are going to server?

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  • Logi_Aron

    Hi @Vladimir Aubrecht?: CV is a mixture of camera side + cloud side. The final step of decryption always occur's at the client side as content is never unencrypted in transit or at rest.

     

    Logitech has no mechanism to access the unencrypted live feed's or recordings of any camera. We write the software which runs on the camera's and our servers. We designed this system so that only your account credentials can be used to decrypt the keys which encrypt your content at rest. Logitech has no tool, will never write a tool, nor can we be forced by a governmental entity to write a tool which breaks our encryption scheme. This is our promise to you as a customer. While many governments have tried via their countries legal process, Logitech has never, nor can we deliver access to a live feed or provided unencrypted recordings without the customer account credentials.

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